#44 - Pictures of Evangelism (Pt. 1): Come and See

George Binoka (: 00:00

Welcome everybody to Gospel Talks podcast where we help Christians all over the world become more effective in relational evangelism and discipleship. I'm George Bonocca, the co-host today, and with me is Jeff Musgrave. He's back, author and the founder of The Exchange. Author to seven books, The Exchange six, but one's on the way, I think. And so really, really excited about that. Resources in multiple languages. You can go to exchangemessage.org and find those in our online store.

We're really excited about the topic today. It's one I've heard Jeff talk about many times and I've heard him talk about it in seminars and it's this concept of, read in the New Testament, the disciples inviting others to come here, Jesus, and they say, come and see. And I think there's a lot there to be taken away as far as what is the strategy, what are the principles behind inviting people? So this is really the start of a three-part series on pictures of evangelism.

And there's three pictures we're going to cover in the next three episodes, starting with this one. So this is the first one, Come and See. So Jeff, tell us, what do you see in that narrative in that part of the Gospels where these disciples are saying, Come and See?

Jeff (: 01:08

Yeah, I love the thought that when we're leading people to know Jesus, that what we're leading them to is not something we have to talk them into that that he is so beautiful. He is so wonderful. All we have to do is get people to come and see him. And that's really the picture that we here. This is from John, Chapter one. And it's it's the first glimpse of

George Binoka (: 01:18

Mm.

Jeff (: 01:35

who Jesus is. John writes his book with

prologue that tells us here's who Jesus is and he gives us ten Christ claims that literally this is the Messiah and here are ten things that he is that no human is and then he begins to just show us who he is and this is the very first glimpse we get and I love this first glimpse because we recognize from the very beginning how relational Jesus is.

George Binoka (: 01:44

Hmm.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. it's the strongest form, forgive me for being a marketer for a second, it's the strongest form of marketing, it's word of mouth. It's word of mouth and then, you know, taking people, Jesus is what's attractive about Christianity. Not necessarily the Christians, not all, now the love of the Christians on each other is also attractive, we know that, but it's Jesus in us. I think that's very powerful.

Jeff (: 02:29

Yes,

exactly. The whole love of is comes from who Jesus is in us. You and I have no capacity to love apart from him. And we love because he first loved us. So all of it is about Jesus. And I love the fact that this starts with two people. And two of John's This is john the baptist disciples.

George Binoka (: 02:38

Yes.

Hmm.

Jeff (: 02:57

approached Jesus and they asked him, know, Master, where are you staying? Very, very simple question and Jesus' response to them was, and see. And I love this because we, when we think of evangelism, think in terms of we've got to apologetically prove to people certain concepts and

They have to understand and believe these concepts before they can embrace Christ. And what Jesus did was not just give them information, but he relationally stepped beside of those people and said, Hey, come with me. I'll just show you.

George Binoka (: 03:40

Yes. Yes. I... 100 % because everything that people throw at us in terms of, well, this is why I'm not gonna believe, this is why I don't believe, this is why I don't go to church, this is why I'm not a Christian, I don't buy into that worldview and here's why we feel like we need to answer just argumentatively or just in terms of facts. that's, obviously you have to use the facts of scripture, but...

I love contrasting it the way you just said it, which is how is Jesus different than what they're describing or the worldview they're in right now? How can I contrast and show them the beauty of Jesus Christ as a person and make him real to them? And there are people thirsty for that. There are people very, very thirsty. I'm gonna share a story a little bit later, but I had this incredible interaction with a guy who's in the Mormon church right now. And I'll tell you a little bit about him later, but it's exactly what he said.

I've wanted to meet Jesus, but I don't know why he doesn't want to meet me. And so we just have to tell people who he is, not just what he's about.

Jeff (: 04:41

Yeah, yeah, I the whole concept of evangelism is introducing them to him as a person. I love this phrase. It's not about a plan of salvation. It's about a person of salvation and introducing them to Jesus as the divine person that he is answers all the questions.

George Binoka (: 05:02

Yes. Yeah. And I don't know about you. It reminds me of the Psalm, taste and see that the Lord is good. This is, we, I know we don't like the experiential, the feel. Sometimes we shy away from that in some circles of, not too much experiential kind of feeling. Actually, there is an experience to be sought out. You know, there is a feeling to be sought out.

Jeff (: 05:22

Absolutely. So

ou knew this, but in the late: 1700

George Binoka (: 05:48

Yeah.

Jeff (: 05:48

And

so all we have to do is get people to do that experiment and they're going to come out with the same result every time. And so basically they were just saying they wanted them to be able to experience the reality of a relationship with Jesus.

George Binoka (: 06:03

And once you get them there, the Holy Spirit does the work, right? I mean, once they get there, I should say, the Holy Spirit does the work. And He does the work in drawing them, but then He does the work. And it's this incredible thing, you get to feel like you're standing at the sideline, and this person is falling more and more in love with Jesus. And it's beautiful. We don't have to be Jesus. That's a very freeing thing. Otherwise, we get this, know, like, I have to be, you know,

Maybe I have to be Jesus in evangelism. It's like, no, you can't be Jesus in evangelism. sometimes what Jesus did in his evangelistic approach in the New Testament, would you say sometimes that was descriptive, not prescriptive, meaning he was fulfilling his role, his mission. He wasn't necessarily always asking us in everything he did, whether it's miracles or whatever else, that that's exactly how we would do evangelism. What would you say about that?

Jeff (: 06:34

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I don't know that I'm totally understanding what you're saying. But this what came to my brain when you asked that question is that even in doing his miracles, Jesus was not trying to talk people into anything. He was just demonstrating the reality of his nature. This is who I am. This is what I do. I think every single physical miracle Jesus did was

George Binoka (: 07:17

Hmm.

Jeff (: 07:24

a picture to every single one of us is what he can do inside of me. So I have a blind heart, he can, he can open my eyes. I have a dysfunctional life from inside my heart is broken. God can come and heal that all of the physical pictures were just helping us to recognize this is who I am. This is what I can do on the inside of you as well.

George Binoka (: 07:50

Yeah, yeah, and I do believe Jesus's mission was distinct from ours, but the mission he gave us is the great commission and to go invite people and say, and see.

Jeff (: 07:59

Yeah, yeah. I, this is very interesting to me because the words come and see I don't know if you knew this, but when we first started the exchange, before it actually became an organization, I wrote this material was using in our church, the giving the exchange book, and the for attribute of God articulation of the gospel was actually called come and see.

George Binoka (: 08:27

Really?

Jeff (: 08:28

Yeah, because we wanted that picture of, look, just let me show you who Jesus is. That's really the idea of the whole strategy of this type of evangelism is, look, just come and see. So Jesus is standing after John is taught. Two of John's disciples see him. John actually says there is the Messiah.

the the the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world so these two men come and follow him and ask him where are you staying and Jesus relationally connects to them doesn't say here's the information you know give me give him directions he says just come with me I will show you and I think that that's where you're talking about he is actually showing us the kind of drawing people to Christ

tools, strategies, that is that is powerful and it's relational. So Jesus now spends the next 15 minutes, maybe a half an hour walking with these people to the place where he stays, rather than giving them directions. And I think of just a simple going into a Walmart. And if you know,

you see an associate, you're trying to figure out how to find a particular item and you say to the associate, where is it? And they, they do this, you know, at point it's, it's over there. I, I always think to myself, I may find that I may not, but when they say to me, come with me, I'll show you. Then I, I know, okay, I'm going to get there. And I love that picture. maybe even another picture of that would be, in your church lobby.

George Binoka (: 09:59

Right.

Jeff (: 10:17

A couple of people come into church, they've got little ones in their arms. And I always say the good church member that you are, you go over to them and you introduce yourself and you recognize they need a nursery, they need childcare. And so you give them the information about the childcare in your church. That's a great church member. I mean, you want every church member to be recognizing those, those

guest in your church need someone to to take care of them like that. But it is so much more powerful. If instead of giving them the information, they just say, Hey, come with me, I'll show you where our childcare area is. And that that's, that's a powerful relational tool. It's even more powerful when they say, Hey, why don't you come and sit with me and my family today? I mean, you can just see the relationship deepening.

And it's even more powerful when they say, Hey, we're going to go out to have something to eat afterwards today. Would you like to go with us? And we begin to recognize the power of the relationship that, is now information is important. No one will ever trust Jesus if they don't have enough information, but relationally connecting to them in order to be able to introduce them to Jesus. That's, that's where the real power is.

George Binoka (: 11:30

Right.

Yes, yeah, and I love this, that the mode of how Jesus does ministry all the way through is so relational. I mean, he says, come and see, this is where I live. And then from there on, he takes people with him. What a picture of going from evangelism to discipleship. You know, it's like Jesus never dropped somebody off in the middle of nowhere and let them fend for themselves. I mean, he really, he sought to take people with him.

one of the most important things we can do, just take people with you. I mean, we don't have to create a new program, just open your life up to them and take them with you where you go.

Jeff (: 12:09

Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's interesting that strategically, and and I don't even like this word, but programmatically, you don't see any shift with Jesus from evangelism to discipleship. It's the exact same strategy, I'm spending time with you. I'm teaching you. And now that you're a believer, I'm spending time with you and teaching you. It's exact same strategy.

George Binoka (: 12:25

Hmm. Hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amen, amen. It's all part of the big, it's part of one big, you know, single thing, you know, we compartmentalize it sometimes, but for Jesus, it was all one thing, I think.

Jeff (: 12:45

So it...

Absolutely. So I think that's interesting in this passage in John, it starts with Jesus meeting those disciples and inviting them to come with him. But then the scene changes and we've got an early disciple, Philip, now this is only six verses later, so it's right in the same context in the scripture, just two different stories in terms of the narrative.

George Binoka (: 13:19

Mm-hmm.

Jeff (: 13:23

Philip goes to his friend Nathaniel and he says to his friend Nathaniel, Hey, we have found the Messiah. And you remember the answer that Nathaniel gave him, it's that classic, can any good thing come out of Nazareth? And I teasingly say, you know, Philip pulled out his apologetic book and began to prove to him that no, he wasn't really born in in Nazareth, he was actually born in Bethlehem. And in doing so he's fulfilled

George Binoka (: 13:43

Yeah.

Jeff (: 13:51

know, these 15 old testament prophecies, which he could have done, but he didn't. What he said was, come and see. And I think this is really instructive. John is the master narrator here telling us this encounter because what happens is he is letting us see that what Jesus was doing in ministry, he is now teaching

George Binoka (: 13:55

Right, right, right.

Jeff (: 14:18

disciples to do the same thing. So Jesus had just six verses earlier used this question, come and see, and now we find Nathaniel using the exact same phrase and I think that's really instructive because when we're training people how to make disciples, we actually need to do it in a way that it's reproducible. That when I show them

George Binoka (: 14:41

Yes.

Jeff (: 14:43

how I explain the gospel, they can learn that articulation of the gospel and make the exact same explanation. because the truth of the gospel is there are core truths that everyone has to know before they can make a credible decision to trust Christ. And I think it's really cool to see that Jesus was training his disciples in a way that was reproducible, that they could do the exact same thing.

George Binoka (: 15:10

And that's the essence of multiplication. When we talk about multiplication, multiplying, disciples, multiplying yourself as a, as a discipler. mean, this is the thrill of life is when you do this with somebody and then you see them start to do this with somebody else. mean, it's like, it's like having grandkids. It's like, you know, I don't know what that's like. You could, you could speak to that, but I know my grand, my, my parents love, love having grandkids. It's like.

a thrill because they have all the fun and none of the problems. They get to enjoy them.

Jeff (: 15:43

I've heard it said

if I knew having grandkids was so fun, I'd had them first. So it is all the fun and none of the work. Actually, it is work sometimes, but when you're tired, you can send them home.

George Binoka (: 15:48

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes,

yes, yeah. And in discipleship, this is the equivalent. I mean, it's really beautiful. It is a thrill. It is a thrill.

Jeff (: 16:06

It is. I think that not only was Philip following Jesus example, but ultimately what he was saying to Nathaniel when he said to Nathaniel, and see basically what he's saying. And this is very instructive to me. He is saying, look, just come meet him for yourself because if you know Jesus, like I know Jesus, you're going to love him as much as I do.

George Binoka (: 16:18

Mm-hmm.

Jeff (: 16:30

And frankly, that is a beautiful picture of what evangelism is. It's not us trying to talk someone into something. It's not us trying to get someone to pray this prayer. It's literally helping them see who Jesus is and letting them fall in Jesus, in love with Jesus themselves, letting them respond to Jesus in love. mean, that, is the basic,

George Binoka (: 16:48

Hmm.

Hmm.

Jeff (: 16:54

communication is let me introduce you to Jesus so that you can have a relationship with him. That's what being a believer, that's what trusting Jesus, that's what getting saved is all about, is saying that's the person that I want to have rescue me and I want to spend the rest of my life following that person.

George Binoka (: 17:19

Yeah, amen, amen. And you won't have to sustain them being a follower because it's, mean, when I think about why I do what I do, it's when you've been loved by Jesus, there is nothing you won't do for him. There is nothing you won't do for him. And that's my fuel is this is Good Friday. We're recording this on Good Friday. It's going to be it's going to be published Monday.

Jeff (: 17:38

Mmm.

George Binoka (: 17:47

But I'm thinking about what Jesus did for me, and it's incredible. And it's like, whatever I sacrifice for him, I mean, it pales in comparison to what he sacrificed for me, and it's worth it. I mean, it is a joy to sacrifice for somebody who's loved me so.

Jeff (: 18:03

Absolutely. And I do think that when you meet Him, you either are to respond with rejection or embracing. That's really the issue. And that's why it's all about Jesus. You bring them to Him and let Him do that work in their heart. to watch them embrace Him in love and to recognize...

George Binoka (: 18:23

Yes.

Jeff (: 18:28

it doesn't always have to include tears, but I don't know how many times I've watched someone trust Christ, recognizing this is what I've been looking for all my life and how can it not bring tears?

George Binoka (: 18:39

Yes. Yeah, I had the privilege of leading Tony Mendez to Christ. And Tony's this big guy. He's six foot six. He weighs 300 pounds and most of it is muscle. He's been in prison multiple times. He's covered in tattoos. And we're sitting in this shwarma restaurant and we're eating our lentil soup and he's wanting to be baptized, but he's not saved yet. And so he's gone through the exchange. We're finishing the exchange and we're

We talk about the rest of the gospel, the last part of the exchange, and he goes, I can do that? I'm like, yeah. So he bows his head, closes his eyes, he prays and asks God to save him and adopt him into his family. I mean, it was like one of the most sweetest prayers I've heard. He opens his eyes and he's crying and he starts wiping the tears away and he looks at me he goes, I don't cry. And I'm like, okay, I believe you, man. But hey, this was a really important thing. He's like, yeah, I usually don't get emotional like that, but.

Wow, that was incredible. And I'm like, here's this guy who was a homeless, know, meth addict on the street, in gangs, been in prison multiple times, and look what God has done. And it's so softened his heart. This is one of the hardest people on planet Earth. It's so softened his heart that you couldn't even, you can't even compare him to who he used to be. He could never do the things he used to do before because of what Jesus' love did to his heart.

Jeff (: 19:59

Hmm.

George Binoka (: 20:03

That's incredible. That's incredible.

Jeff (: 20:05

Yeah.

Yeah. And, and I, I don't want to ever walk away from the, the miracle of what you just witnessed. It's not just, I decided to love him. It was the, it was the love that wooed him in. And then he put his faith in Jesus. And then at that instant, I love this getting people to Jesus sometimes as a process.

George Binoka (: 20:14

Hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jeff (: 20:30

but that moment in which there is a new birth, that is an instantaneous, miraculous event that only Jesus can do in a person's life. And it is, it is, we don't ever want to get over the wonder of watching. And I know, you know that I just want to make sure everybody that's listening recognizes. We genuinely believe that this is my miracle. This is the most important miracle ever performed.

George Binoka (: 20:34

Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Jeff (: 20:59

when Jesus rescues a person and transforms their lives. Now the transformation is a progressive sanctification through life, that walking in darkness and then being entered into the kingdom of light, being dead in trespasses and sins and being alive in Jesus, mean that miraculous instantaneous event is only something Jesus can do.

George Binoka (: 20:59

Yes.

Yes, yes. at that point, mean, really isn't what we're inviting people to do is become followers of Jesus, you know, fueled by love, not obligation, not a legalistic thing.

Jeff (: 21:38

Absolutely. I think it's interesting

when we talk about making disciples and this, and I love the word disciple making referring to evangelism. I love to be able, okay, if Jesus were here today and he was going to make a disciple, what would the invitation look like? I mean, we don't have to question that. We know what the invitation would be. He would look in their eyes and he would say,

George Binoka (: 21:46

Mm. Mm.

Jeff (: 22:07

follow me. I mean, that was the invitation he gave over and over and over on earth. And so when we are giving the invitation to people, we're literally saying to them, so are you willing today to become a follower of Jesus? Because that's the instantaneous miraculous event in which Jesus gives them new life because they made that decision. I want to, I want to trust Jesus. I want to follow Jesus.

That's a beginning of a new life. This new life now is the life of following Jesus.

George Binoka (: 22:36

Mm-hmm.

Amen. you're right. mean, what it takes to get from seeing Nathaniel on the road and inviting him to the point you just talked about and them being committed to following Jesus wherever he goes and he says to them, all right, come with me. Let me show you where I'm staying. I mean, that takes time. It may take years. It might take a long time. But I think it's worth it to get to this end point, which...

you know, the follower of Christ, mean, that's an incredible thing.

Jeff (: 23:10

Yeah, and it does take time sometimes, but sometimes it doesn't. mean, it takes time until it doesn't. And the timetable is God's. It's not ours, but we have to be able to invest in people.

George Binoka (: 23:14

Right, right.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened with this gentleman I kind of told you guys about at the beginning. I'll tell you the story here. So me and Cody, Cody came to Christ with the exchange and me and Cody are sitting at coffee waiting for his truck to be done at the dealership and he gets a call from his buddy and his buddy says, hey, you want to hit lunch? And he goes, well, I'm here with George. Is it okay if George comes along? And I told Cody, okay, we can do it. I actually invited another guy to lunch. Is it okay if he joins us?

He's another guy from church. so me, Dave, Cody sit down with his friend and we're eating wings. you know, we start talking and he comes in and I ask him, Hey, how you doing, man? And he tells me a little bit of how he's doing. And then all of a sudden, boom, he goes right into everything that's wrong with the Mormon church. And so he just starts telling me like, there's all these inconsistencies in Mormon doctrine. There's all these glaring

There's all this glaring ugliness and how the church actually operates and this is happening. This is happening This is happening and every time he says something I just ask a follow-up question I just kind of ask a follow-up question like well, you know like this is happening like have you have you ever looked at this aspect of who Jesus is or have you ever thought about this aspect of the Bible you know that the Bible says this I don't ever state anything I'm just asking questions and all of sudden he stopped in the middle. He goes he goes he like he left up that he goes hold on you're three Christians against me and I'm like, uh-oh

We just lost him. And I go, dude, we didn't even plan this. I mean, this was all put together last night. He's like, I know, but I'm just telling you, feels like it's three of you ganging up against me. All right, I mean, let's change the subject. I don't wanna make you feel like that. He's like, all right, so we try to change the subject. And he goes, he went right back into telling me what's wrong with the Mormon church. So then we leave the restaurant and we're getting back into my car and getting ready to take Cody to his house to keep waiting for his truck. And...

We started pulling away and all of sudden he gets a call from his buddy and his buddy goes, hey, is George there? He goes, yeah, I'm in the car with him. He's like, put me on speaker. And I'm thinking, man, this guy's gonna roast me. He puts him on speaker and he goes, hey, I just wanna tell you something, George. I'm like, what's up, man? He goes, you've talked with me more about Jesus than my bishop has. And he used some very colorful language.

He did some expletives, but he said it, then my bishop has for decades. And I just want to tell you, I actually really like this. And I told him, said, Chris, I want to tell you something. And it's not, I'm not telling you in a weird way. I'm just telling you straight up, God has put a burden on my heart for you ever since I first met you at one of Cody's backyard parties. I love you, man.

and God's given me a love for you and whenever you're ready, I'm ready to sit down with you. He goes, I know that. He goes, but here's the position I'm in. If I do this, it's gonna affect my whole family and my wife is not there yet. So, you know, we go through all that and we talk all the way up to Cody's driveway and we're still talking. And then finally it's until he gets to his driveway that he says, all right guys, I'm at my house, I have to go. But I really appreciate it. And I'm like,

All right, see you later. I mean, just, one of the things I told him is, look, when you're ready, I'm not gonna tell you what I think. I'm gonna take you to Jesus. Because one of the statements he made was, I've wanted Jesus, but I feel like Jesus hasn't wanted me. And I said, man, that is not true. That is not true.

Jeff (: 26:39

Yeah.

George Binoka (: 26:49

He does want you. Why do you think we're sitting across the table from each other? I mean, that's no accident. It's no accident that Cody's your friend and he's come to Christ. So Jesus does want you, man. He's put, he just surrounded you with three Christian guys. He wants you. I mean, it was a setup from the beginning, but it wasn't our setup. It was Jesus' setup. So Jesus wants you, Jesus loves you, and when you're ready, come and see. And it works.

Jeff (: 26:54

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. I love that. That's beautiful, beautiful story. I don't you think I've, think there's a lot of people that are expressing exactly what he is and they don't realize that because God is holy.

George Binoka (: 27:23

Hmm.

Jeff (: 27:26

our sin is separated from him. And it's not that God doesn't love you and isn't reaching towards you. It's you've desensitized yourself from him from your own sinfulness. And I that's why I love that first lesson in the exchange Bible study because I've watched a lot of people like him recognize, that's the distance. The distance is not that he doesn't love me he doesn't he isn't reaching for me or that he doesn't exist, but that there's this there's a block. And

George Binoka (: 27:34

Yes.

Yes.

Jeff (: 27:55

It's so beautiful to be able to get people to see it for themselves right from the word of God.

George Binoka (: 27:59

It is I can't wait. I think one of these days he's gonna call me and be like, all right, man, let's go talk I mean, I just saw him again last week We went to a pool party that we were all invited to by another guy that Lexi and I have the privilege of him getting it into him and his wife's life so we're praying for them too, but By the way, this is the coolest thing when you see an unbeliever come to Christ now you get access to all these unbelievers in this circle that you would have never gotten access to

and just see what God will do. I mean, it's so cool.

Jeff (: 28:29

especially

when you have joined his life. I mean, that's the whole beauty of relational evangelism. You joined his life, and now you have his friends.

George Binoka (: 28:32

Yes.

Yes,

yes, absolutely. When we tried to leave that pool party, Sharice, she loves my wife. This other couple, unrelated to the guy I just got done talking about, she goes, why are you leaving? I go, well, we forgot the baby's medicine at home. We might as well just go. She's like, no, no, you stay. I'll go get the medicine. Sharice, are you sure? I'm sure, give me your garage code. I'll go get the medicine. To me, that's like...

Yes, yes, I want these friendships. I want to just love these people because Jesus loves them. Jesus died for them. I mean, remember, whoever you interact with, Jesus died for them. He loves them. He wants you to love them. And then whatever he gives you, just walk with them the whole way. Walk with them for as long as it takes. I love the way you put that. I love the way you put that.

Jeff (: 29:21

Good. Good.

Well, that's what I wanted to talk about with come and see I just think it's a beautiful phrase. And it's a beautiful. Let's keep this in our mind. This is not about us proving anything. And this is just introducing them to Jesus just I love this picture of evangelism, putting my arm around my friend, introducing them to my best friend, and just come and see for yourself. You know, you're gonna love him as much as I do.

George Binoka (: 29:41

Yes.

Yes.

I love it. Well, guys, thank you so much for listening. If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, it'd be a huge help to us if you could hit that subscribe button and share this with somebody if it's been a benefit to you. We ask that you pray with us as we pray to the Lord of the harvest that he would send forth laborers. That is what we exist to do is equip the laborers. And we know we don't have a harvest problem. We have a labor shortage.

and we need to all get off the sidelines and jump into the Great Commission. It's not an option, but we are excited to encourage you guys in this area and pray to the Lord of the Harvest with you. Love you guys. We'll see you next week.